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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 03-04-2013 11:18:27 
Nectarine
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I seem to be having problems getting the reply to go through correctly. This is not the entire post, it is instead an attempt to troubleshoot.

 

First up, the main quest. I've gone through with your suggestions, but I haven't had much success. I've gone through and examined carefully all the torches in and near Metanrith about 10 times, but all of them look exactly the same. They seem to have the same intensity cast on the floor when in overhead; changing the camera angle in F9 changes how the light appears on the wall the torch is attached to, but all of them seem to operate within the same extremes. The animations look the same (although for a while I thought one was bigger by a millimetre or so), they seem to blink at the same rates. I even tried comparing screenshots, but I can't see any difference between any of them.

The RingKey remains elusive. I've checked up on the lead you gave me for the skeletons dropping it in the Z-area, panning the camera angle around the overhangs of the opened caskets to check everywhere. No sign of it, nor in the large corridor outside of the Z-area. It might be one of the 7 other possible locations - I might do a thorough search of Level 22 a bit later to see if there's anything I've missed, but I've already done one complete search of all the walls (and I mean all of them) and suspicious looking objects for secret passages, and I'm sure I'd have noticed it by now.

(but that's where you're wrong Nectarine, for the RingKey is hidden in the corners!)

Blue blade, eh? Was that the reward for completing the 4th Knight's Room? The Knight's Sword of Tormar, I think? I've done a quick check through Level 18 and I can't find anything else I might have left behind - I may need to do a more thorough check later.

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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 03-04-2013 11:22:05 
Nectarine
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Second section of post.

 

As for the Medallion of Arachnes, I'm not actually sure I've completed it. The warning that it will betray me has me both paranoid and curious at the same (the vengeance of Bithol, maybe?), but the ending of the cavern sequence felt a bit incomplete. The interesting thing about the quest is that the Crypt Urn sequence was the section that took the longest amount of time, and once that is over (and you definitely know you are on the right track) the pace picks up considerably until you get the Medallion itself, at which point there is almost no enemy resistance. I can see two possible scenarios: One, where this is a deliberate gesture by the Medallion in order to trick you into removing it from the cavern after it realises that it cannot resist your approach, or Two, where this is a result of limitations of the Darkstone engine and quest-editing tools. I'm more inclined to believe the former, as the sense of unease I had when taking it had to originate from the effort made to create that atmosphere. But at the same time I find myself doubting whether or not anything will actually materialise in Uma that bears relation to the Medallion being removed from the cavern. As far as I'm concerned the quest isn't over yet, and I'll reserve my full judgement until a later date.

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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 03-04-2013 11:24:21 
Nectarine
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Third section of post. I'm not entirely sure why this wouldn't all be processed in one go.

 

There's a funny story about my experiences with the Medallion so far. When I first found it I wasn't sure how to activate it, and in the end I decided to leave it out of my inventory for a while. Later on I tried testing it, but the passages that I tried to find with it were not of the right sort. In my experiences, the Medallion detects passages that are open from the beginning of the level (Level 21 would be a good area to use the Medallion in). The passages I tried testing it on were not of that variety, and were instead of the find-a-switch-to-open variety that propagated throughout much of Level 22. The Medallion of Arachnes provided me with no help for those passages, and I was sure that I was either using it wrong, or that it was completely broken. It wasn't until I walked near the Odoni section again (which contained a passage detectable by the Medallion) some 15 minutes later that I realised my mistake.

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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 04-04-2013 02:21:58 
Foucter
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<First up, the main quest. I've gone through with your suggestions, but I haven't had much success. I've gone through and examined carefully all the torches in and near Metanrith about 10 times, but all of them look exactly the same. They seem to have the same intensity cast on the floor when in overhead; changing the camera angle in F9 changes how the light appears on the wall the torch is attached to, but all of them seem to operate within the same extremes. The animations look the same (although for a while I thought one was bigger by a millimetre or so), they seem to blink at the same rates. I even tried comparing screenshots, but I can't see any difference between any of them.>

   As you enter the central Metanrith Crypt, on the opposite side of the large center square look for a torch.  Maybe your brightness is higher so it doesn’t appear brighter, but there actually 5 times the normal torch illumination here.  Anyway, walk straight through the torch into the center of the square, which opens the well.

 

<The RingKey remains elusive. I've checked up on the lead you gave me for the skeletons dropping it in the Z-area, panning the camera angle around the overhangs of the opened caskets to check everywhere. No sign of it, nor in the large corridor outside of the Z-area. It might be one of the 7 other possible locations - I might do a thorough search of Level 22 a bit later to see if there's anything I've missed, but I've already done one complete search of all the walls (and I mean all of them) and suspicious looking objects for secret passages, and I'm sure I'd have noticed it by now.

(but that's where you're wrong Nectarine, for the RingKey is hidden in the corners!)>

   So you did find the RingKey?  Wherever you killed the skeleton is where any items would fall; even behind the caskets.

 

<Blue blade, eh? Was that the reward for completing the 4th Knight's Room? The Knight's Sword of Tormar, I think? I've done a quick check through Level 18 and I can't find anything else I might have left behind - I may need to do a more thorough check later.>

   You’re right, but its not the Knight’s Sword.  The sword in question is in the Coat of Arms on the wall opposite the entrance, the one with the blue blade.

 

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Last Edited On: 04-04-2013 02:25:54 By Foucter for the Reason
 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 04-04-2013 02:40:15 
Foucter
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<As for the Medallion of Arachnes, I'm not actually sure I've completed it. The warning that it will betray me has me both paranoid and curious at the same (the vengeance of Bithol, maybe?), but the ending of the cavern sequence felt a bit incomplete. The interesting thing about the quest is that the Crypt Urn sequence was the section that took the longest amount of time, and once that is over (and you definitely know you are on the right track) the pace picks up considerably until you get the Medallion itself, at which point there is almost no enemy resistance. I can see two possible scenarios: One, where this is a deliberate gesture by the Medallion in order to trick you into removing it from the cavern after it realises that it cannot resist your approach, or Two, where this is a result of limitations of the Darkstone engine and quest-editing tools. I'm more inclined to believe the former, as the sense of unease I had when taking it had to originate from the effort made to create that atmosphere. But at the same time I find myself doubting whether or not anything will actually materialise in Uma that bears relation to the Medallion being removed from the cavern. As far as I'm concerned the quest isn't over yet, and I'll reserve my full judgement until a later date.>

     Very good thinking!  Yes, you have a right to feel afraid of the thing.  On Level 22 you get the first taste of how it helps you, which is fully realized on the next level down, but how long to use it?  I will tell you, if you haven’t already guessed; you can take it back.  And… save before going to level 24.

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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 04-04-2013 10:12:00 
Nectarine
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Sorry about my obfuscation about the RingKey. I haven't actually found it yet, the last sentence about it was a joking reference to the time I spent into opening the Crypt of Kings. I searched every wall in the place, but I made a gambit that you wouldn't put any of the buttons on a corner section of a wall, based solely off thematic reasons (I decided that because the buttons were on the same wall section that opened, a corner section opening would look ugly and might cause problems on the minimap). The bit where I explained this connection was in the 4th section of the long post that I made, but after a series of problems getting it to go through I didn't bother posting it. My bad.

In any case, the short of it is that I haven't found the RingKey. I'll go extra slow when I check that area again, hopefully I find it soon.

Edit: I found it! Turned out to be nowhere near the Zadisha section, instead it was hidden amongst Odoni.

The central Mentanrith section, eh? Ah, that explains it, I hadn't opened the central Mentanrith area (I thought that had to do with the torches). And what do you know, the bit to open it up is in one of the corners. Why doesn't that surprise me?

Edit: Guess what else was in a corner? The RingKey of course.

Ah, the Coats of Arms. After there was no interaction with the piles of weapons lying on the floor in some of the earlier chambers, I assumed these Coats of Arms would be static as well (I think I moused over one, but not the others). Thank you for pointing that out.

And the same for reminding me about putting the Medallion back on the pedestal. I'd found that out some time ago, but I've since clean forgotten about it. Now that I remember that, making use of the thing has become doubly ominous. I suspected that Level 23 would be where it came into it's element - what Catacombs would be complete without secret passages?

I can't recall if the Prophecy was supposed to be on the Upper or Lower Catacombs. I'll check once I open up the game again. If it's on the Upper, I expect to see a section warning me about using the Medallion. Not too sure about the Lower, though. Since I've been waiting a while to find this prophecy, I can't wait to find it. Aside from the crystals, the prophecy was the driving force behind T/Ormar.

Maybe this will spoil a bit for me, but is it possible for a custom quest to disable the use of the Magic Door spell? And does it reflect upon me that I really, really want a this quest to have that capability?

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Last Edited On: 04-04-2013 10:46:39 By Nectarine for the Reason Updated information concerning the location of a RingKey.
 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 07-04-2013 16:25:40 
vivien
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I'm glad I'm not the only one playing this! Slowly but surely I'm playing and Nectarine, I'll use your experiences here to my advantage as I'm really really stuck, my bad of course as I quit playing for a while and now I've forgotten some things and I seem to be running around in circles a lot. That's not surprising as I tend to have trouble with maps and directions in real life too. Hey but it's fun at least!
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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 08-04-2013 00:16:16 
vivien
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Yay, I've finally found the Jewel of Jelehon...still lots left to find and do! Thanks for the tip about the collision; I would probably have gone and touched the thing otherwise.
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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 08-04-2013 14:32:59 
vivien
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Okay, what exactly is supposed to happen once we place all the urns? I think I've placed all of them now but...and if there are any left I don't even know which ones they would be and where to find them and place them. I'm 95% sure I've placed all of them. In level 22, what do I do to open that place that has a coffin which says Ebishom when I mouse over it?
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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 08-04-2013 18:24:54 
Foucter
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This is a quick reply... on my way to work.  Check the entrance area of Level 21, if you don't see something obvious, then you've missed some urns.  If you can see the lighted path, then follow it! 8)

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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 08-04-2013 20:20:48 
vivien
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I must have definitely missed an urn...back to urn hunting, I think I found the place where it should go too...now if I could just find it... thanks for your prompt reply!

When I went to level 18 to check it out I also found a Hall of the Magi which is sealed by the same guy who sealed the Hall of Knights; does that mean both these areas are inaccessible?  I think I read in a previous forum that the Hall of Knights was inaccessible.

Also double checked level 21. Yeah, all of it...kind of have time on my hands these days and it's been so long since I played that level.

It's the 'Nadahim' one, do have any idea where I could find it?

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Last Edited On: 08-04-2013 21:15:58 By vivien for the Reason
 Subject :Re:Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 10-04-2013 05:01:07 
Foucter
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[vivien 08-04-2013 20:20:48]:

I must have definitely missed an urn...back to urn hunting, I think I found the place where it should go too...now if I could just find it... thanks for your prompt reply!

When I went to level 18 to check it out I also found a Hall of the Magi which is sealed by the same guy who sealed the Hall of Knights; does that mean both these areas are inaccessible?  I think I read in a previous forum that the Hall of Knights was inaccessible.

Also double checked level 21. Yeah, all of it...kind of have time on my hands these days and it's been so long since I played that level.

It's the 'Nadahim' one, do have any idea where I could find it?

OK, did you ever open the crypt of Ithanes in the Valley of the Dead?  Its the stone coffin straight ahead as you enter the Valley.  When doing so, two Skeletal Guardians appear out of the two stone houses that flank the entrance.  After you kill them, there is an urn to find inside each house.  The Orena Nadahim is one of them.
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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 11-04-2013 16:52:37 
vivien
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That must be it, I haven't opened the crypt of Ithanes and I don't remember what I must do to open it either. And this means I am missing 2 urns! On the bright side I went and found and opened the lair of Bithol while I was skulking about looking for the urns. I'll go and read the notes that go way back again to find out what I must do to open up that crypt...and I wouldn't mind getting another hint, thanks!

 

I read something about the stones of Rusena, Xes, Falet ... etc ...is this it ...I am even more confused as I haven't come across any stones with such names...

 

I'm also stuck on the 3 rings riddle which I was reluctant to ask before but Nectarine's success in finding the 3 rings has given me hope too;  Ring 1, Riddle 3: Beyond the path that glitters, near the arm that opens, pay your alms that your quest may continue.... any hint, what is the path that glitters?

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Last Edited On: 11-04-2013 17:43:49 By vivien for the Reason
 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 12-04-2013 02:39:40 
Foucter
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[vivien 11-04-2013 16:52:37]:

That must be it, I haven't opened the crypt of Ithanes and I don't remember what I must do to open it either. And this means I am missing 2 urns! On the bright side I went and found and opened the lair of Bithol while I was skulking about looking for the urns. I'll go and read the notes that go way back again to find out what I must do to open up that crypt...and I wouldn't mind getting another hint, thanks!

 

I read something about the stones of Rusena, Xes, Falet ... etc ...is this it ...I am even more confused as I haven't come across any stones with such names...

 

I'm also stuck on the 3 rings riddle which I was reluctant to ask before but Nectarine's success in finding the 3 rings has given me hope too;  Ring 1, Riddle 3: Beyond the path that glitters, near the arm that opens, pay your alms that your quest may continue.... any hint, what is the path that glitters?

To open Ithanes crypt you need to talk to Blue Bones, a skeleton standing in a small gap between the outer rocks and one of the houses you're trying to get into.  He will give you a list of names, maybe first names only; search the tombstones for these people, playing close attention to capitialization. The order he gives them is important too.  If you need more help than that, let me know!  8)
OK, the 3 rings riddle points to the glittering spike maze on Level 10.  Remember the side path that lead to the lever which opened the grates at the end of the maze?  Look for a pot, and put any amount of gold in it.
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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 12-04-2013 02:44:14 
Foucter
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As an aside, has anyone ever visited It-Who's-Name-Is-Unprounouncable?  Just wondering.  8)

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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 12-04-2013 14:52:48 
vivien
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Okay, I understand now the stones mean 'tombstones' (sometimes something so obvious slips away from my attention) and the capitalization seems to mean instructions of some sort...I still don't get what I'm to do exactly...I long ago killed all the 'undead' that popped up when I touched these tombstones and I probably didn't touch them in the right order as I only now understood about the tombstones...I hope i haven't messed up my game...

 

Hey, I understand now, like I said it was right in front of me all this time....oh well...I've been playing on and off for months and I thought it was something more complicated that it turned out...on with the game then, thanks!

 

I don't know if it's something I've done but when I want to reach the pedestal 'defeat' for the Medallion, the way is barred by two blue columns...

...finally I had the thief use defusion to place the required potion on the pedestal as I could discover no way to get there, teleportation wasn't working...

I've found the Medallion and it seems I'd already discovered all those secret places before....oh well, there's still a place that i can't open on level 22 though, I thought the medallion would help with that... also close to the entrance to level 23 there are what looks like 3 blue buttons, a bloodrune fit in there when i tried... what exactly is that? and can I find more blood runes to fit in there and open something maybe that place that isn't open...?  the mouse lights up over the pail and rope that is next to the well in level 22...does that mean anything?  The land of Ormar has me really stumped...

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Last Edited On: 12-04-2013 23:22:44 By vivien for the Reason
 Subject :Re:Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 13-04-2013 04:57:24 
Foucter
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[vivien 12-04-2013 14:52:48]:

Okay, I understand now the stones mean 'tombstones' (sometimes something so obvious slips away from my attention) and the capitalization seems to mean instructions of some sort...I still don't get what I'm to do exactly...I long ago killed all the 'undead' that popped up when I touched these tombstones and I probably didn't touch them in the right order as I only now understood about the tombstones...I hope i haven't messed up my game...

 

Hey, I understand now, like I said it was right in front of me all this time....oh well...I've been playing on and off for months and I thought it was something more complicated that it turned out...on with the game then, thanks!

 

I don't know if it's something I've done but when I want to reach the pedestal 'defeat' for the Medallion, the way is barred by two blue columns...

...finally I had the thief use defusion to place the required potion on the pedestal as I could discover no way to get there, teleportation wasn't working...

I've found the Medallion and it seems I'd already discovered all those secret places before....oh well, there's still a place that i can't open on level 22 though, I thought the medallion would help with that... also close to the entrance to level 23 there are what looks like 3 blue buttons, a bloodrune fit in there when i tried... what exactly is that? and can I find more blood runes to fit in there and open something maybe that place that isn't open...?  the mouse lights up over the pail and rope that is next to the well in level 22...does that mean anything?  The land of Ormar has me really stumped...

My advice for Level 22 is to go slow, and search every nook and cranny.  Off the main entrance corridor there are four different directions to go.  Search them one at a time checking the walls, the corners, spaces behind sarcophagi, open every one you can, spin the camera to look inside open sarcophagi.
You've find more bloodstones as you search each area; once you kill the guardian carrying it.  You found the 3 blue buttons, but wait to play with them until you've finsihed exploring Level 22.  That way you'll be sure to have everything you need to deal with socketing all three "buttons".
If you've read my other responses, I answered the question about the well in Metanrith.  Let me know if you need further help with it.
Yes, Ormar is the toughest area in the Avenger, but the payoffs are great for those that succeed.  The other thing about Ormar is that everything is random; the monsters, where quest items are found.  On Level 22 alone there are 8 different places that you could find the next RingKey and main quest object.  There are also some items you find that are used on other levels, so be sure to pick those up.
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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 13-04-2013 16:58:40 
vivien
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I took your advice for level 22, I was quite thorough before and had opened all the sarcophagi and had opened the well as well, is that all I had to do with the well?, but I went through it again. The only place that I haven't opened is in the Ebishom section which I can't figure out at all and the 3 blue buttons which I'll follow your advice and look for more bloodstones. I had found the various ringkeys and have completed levels 18, 19, 20 and have placed everything that can be placed in level 17 though there are things missing still. I've even gone down to level 24 (before acquiring the Medallion) and there is a place there too that I can't access so I decided to come back and try to finish up all I can in the other levels in Ormar. There is also a door with a skull on level 23 that I have not been able to open, I've opened one of them but not the other... I've also spent time in the alchemy section making potions using the troll claws and various other stuff that was littering the town from the previous lands...and discovered the bonus that I could sell those potions that I don't use, that was a great touch. Also I haven't found the left and right eyes mentioned by the Blood Gem...I'm slowly going to look through level 22 and 23 again...do I need to use any of the blue swords that I found in level 18, I think it was?  I noticed also that the sarcophagi in the nifemi crypts are all closed...I played this section a few months ago and I remember that perhaps they were open and my clicking on them closed them as they can't be interacted with now but I can't be exactly sure about this.

I tried going into level 24 with the Medallion and realized what happens, I'll just return that thing as soon as i finish levels22 and 23! It amazes me how many thing you've thought of including in this quest...and if you weren't around to help i would probably have quit after getting stuck in Ormar.

I also went and digged up hints here:  http://www.it-taucher.at/forum/index.php?topic=11712.15

I've realized that there is a 'Crypt of Kings' (probably the one Nectarine found) and it seems to be between the ebishom and metarinth section in level 22 and a place close to the entry/exit area where I can see a skeleton standing that I haven't opened yet apart from the central place in the Ebishom section...also so many of the secret places in level 22 are just a small corridor with nothing there...is this how it's supposed to be?  I'm sure about checking every sarcophagi that is there but as for the walls I guess I'll really have to recheck them as the switches are rather hard to see; in any Darkstone quest I have always disliked levels 21 and 22 because the walls have so many skulls that it's easy to miss switches and stuff, also the crypts feel too eerie...

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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 18-04-2013 06:36:34 
Foucter
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Sorry for the late response!  Here’s all my comments:

 

“I took your advice for level 22, I was quite thorough before and had opened all the sarcophagi and had opened the well as well, is that all I had to do with the well?”

     Well, after you open the well you should try using the bucket to see if anything’s inside it.

 

“The only place that I haven't opened is in the Ebishom section which I can't figure out at all.”

     Look inside the sarcophagi for the button to open it.

 

“There is also a door with a skull on level 23 that I have not been able to open, I've opened one of them but not the other...”

     There are 2 random blue skull levers hidden inside alcoves.  One opens one door, the second opens the other door.  Level 23 was a great achievement.  It had a complete remodel from the boring original, which added the area names, the launchers, Skull Gates, and the different Guardians and their hearts which you needed to reach Level 24.

 

 “I've also spent time in the alchemy section making potions using the troll claws and various other stuff that was littering the town from the previous lands...and discovered the bonus that I could sell those potions that I don't use, that was a great touch.”

     Finally!!  Someone who gets it!  I literally had a playtester mock me because they thought you had to make all these potions to beat Level 18.  Wrong!!

 

“Also I haven't found the left and right eyes mentioned by the Blood Gem...”

     Keep searching those areas you haven’t been to on Level 22; you’ll find it. (Edit: Sorry!  Oh, "those" eyes!  You'll find those on Level 24 once you reach the center.  Be sure to read the clue again so you know what to do!)

 

“Do I need to use any of the blue swords that I found in level 18, I think it was?”

     Actually you do!  One is for Level 17 pedestals, and the Ebishom sword is for Level 24 in one of the shrines.

 

“I noticed also that the sarcophagi in the nifemi crypts are all closed...I played this section a few months ago and I remember that perhaps they were open and my clicking on them closed them as they can't be interacted with now but I can't be exactly sure about this.”

   Have you tried walking to the end of the corridor?  They should open of their own accord…

 

“I tried going into level 24 with the Medallion and realized what happens, I'll just return that thing as soon as i finish levels22 and 23! It amazes me how many thing you've thought of including in this quest...and if you weren't around to help i would probably have quit after getting stuck in Ormar.”

     Yes, you found out why you don’t take the Medallion to Level 24.  It also changes the text and flow of the end battle, if you take it all the way.  Its bad!!

 

“I've realized that there is a 'Crypt of Kings' (probably the one Nectarine found) and it seems to be between the ebishom and metarinth section in level 22 and a place close to the entry/exit area where I can see a skeleton standing that I haven't opened yet apart from the central place in the Ebishom section...also so many of the secret places in level 22 are just a small corridor with nothing there...is this how it's supposed to be?”

     Those little secrets are places where the Royal Guardians spawn, which is also random so there is several of them.  The entrance to the Crypt of Kings is tied to the 3 blue sockets for the Bloodstones.  I would suggest making a new save before opening it, and going inside, because IIRC there’s no going back “once you start down that path”.

 

  I'm sure about checking every sarcophagi that is there but as for the walls I guess I'll really have to recheck them as the switches are rather hard to see; in any Darkstone quest I have always disliked levels 21 and 22 because the walls have so many skulls that it's easy to miss switches and stuff, also the crypts feel too eerie...

     Yeah, I really didn’t like the graphic for 21 and 22 either, which is why I went to great lengths to break it up some.  Like changing the main floor to a dark marble instead of that solid brick.  Did you notice that the areas behind the sarcophagi have no skulls?

 

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Last Edited On: 19-04-2013 18:39:08 By Foucter for the Reason
 Subject :Re:Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 20-04-2013 11:52:50 
vivien
Darkstoner
Joined: 16-04-2011 16:02:19
Posts: 35
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double post?

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Last Edited On: 24-04-2013 00:35:41 By vivien for the Reason
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