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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 12-04-2013 02:44:14 
Foucter
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Topic : Need help on The Avenger

As an aside, has anyone ever visited It-Who's-Name-Is-Unprounouncable?  Just wondering.  8)

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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 12-04-2013 02:39:40 
Foucter
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Topic : Need help on The Avenger







[vivien 11-04-2013 16:52:37]:

That must be it, I haven't opened the crypt of Ithanes and I don't remember what I must do to open it either. And this means I am missing 2 urns! On the bright side I went and found and opened the lair of Bithol while I was skulking about looking for the urns. I'll go and read the notes that go way back again to find out what I must do to open up that crypt...and I wouldn't mind getting another hint, thanks!

 

I read something about the stones of Rusena, Xes, Falet ... etc ...is this it ...I am even more confused as I haven't come across any stones with such names...

 

I'm also stuck on the 3 rings riddle which I was reluctant to ask before but Nectarine's success in finding the 3 rings has given me hope too;  Ring 1, Riddle 3: Beyond the path that glitters, near the arm that opens, pay your alms that your quest may continue.... any hint, what is the path that glitters?

To open Ithanes crypt you need to talk to Blue Bones, a skeleton standing in a small gap between the outer rocks and one of the houses you're trying to get into.  He will give you a list of names, maybe first names only; search the tombstones for these people, playing close attention to capitialization. The order he gives them is important too.  If you need more help than that, let me know!  8)
OK, the 3 rings riddle points to the glittering spike maze on Level 10.  Remember the side path that lead to the lever which opened the grates at the end of the maze?  Look for a pot, and put any amount of gold in it.
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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 11-04-2013 16:52:37 
vivien
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Topic : Need help on The Avenger

That must be it, I haven't opened the crypt of Ithanes and I don't remember what I must do to open it either. And this means I am missing 2 urns! On the bright side I went and found and opened the lair of Bithol while I was skulking about looking for the urns. I'll go and read the notes that go way back again to find out what I must do to open up that crypt...and I wouldn't mind getting another hint, thanks!

 

I read something about the stones of Rusena, Xes, Falet ... etc ...is this it ...I am even more confused as I haven't come across any stones with such names...

 

I'm also stuck on the 3 rings riddle which I was reluctant to ask before but Nectarine's success in finding the 3 rings has given me hope too;  Ring 1, Riddle 3: Beyond the path that glitters, near the arm that opens, pay your alms that your quest may continue.... any hint, what is the path that glitters?

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Last Edited On: 11-04-2013 17:43:49 By vivien for the Reason
 Subject :Re:Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 10-04-2013 05:01:07 
Foucter
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Topic : Need help on The Avenger







[vivien 08-04-2013 20:20:48]:

I must have definitely missed an urn...back to urn hunting, I think I found the place where it should go too...now if I could just find it... thanks for your prompt reply!

When I went to level 18 to check it out I also found a Hall of the Magi which is sealed by the same guy who sealed the Hall of Knights; does that mean both these areas are inaccessible?  I think I read in a previous forum that the Hall of Knights was inaccessible.

Also double checked level 21. Yeah, all of it...kind of have time on my hands these days and it's been so long since I played that level.

It's the 'Nadahim' one, do have any idea where I could find it?

OK, did you ever open the crypt of Ithanes in the Valley of the Dead?  Its the stone coffin straight ahead as you enter the Valley.  When doing so, two Skeletal Guardians appear out of the two stone houses that flank the entrance.  After you kill them, there is an urn to find inside each house.  The Orena Nadahim is one of them.
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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 08-04-2013 20:20:48 
vivien
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I must have definitely missed an urn...back to urn hunting, I think I found the place where it should go too...now if I could just find it... thanks for your prompt reply!

When I went to level 18 to check it out I also found a Hall of the Magi which is sealed by the same guy who sealed the Hall of Knights; does that mean both these areas are inaccessible?  I think I read in a previous forum that the Hall of Knights was inaccessible.

Also double checked level 21. Yeah, all of it...kind of have time on my hands these days and it's been so long since I played that level.

It's the 'Nadahim' one, do have any idea where I could find it?

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Last Edited On: 08-04-2013 21:15:58 By vivien for the Reason
 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 08-04-2013 18:24:54 
Foucter
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This is a quick reply... on my way to work.  Check the entrance area of Level 21, if you don't see something obvious, then you've missed some urns.  If you can see the lighted path, then follow it! 8)

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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 08-04-2013 14:32:59 
vivien
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Okay, what exactly is supposed to happen once we place all the urns? I think I've placed all of them now but...and if there are any left I don't even know which ones they would be and where to find them and place them. I'm 95% sure I've placed all of them. In level 22, what do I do to open that place that has a coffin which says Ebishom when I mouse over it?
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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 08-04-2013 00:16:16 
vivien
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Yay, I've finally found the Jewel of Jelehon...still lots left to find and do! Thanks for the tip about the collision; I would probably have gone and touched the thing otherwise.
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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 07-04-2013 16:25:40 
vivien
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I'm glad I'm not the only one playing this! Slowly but surely I'm playing and Nectarine, I'll use your experiences here to my advantage as I'm really really stuck, my bad of course as I quit playing for a while and now I've forgotten some things and I seem to be running around in circles a lot. That's not surprising as I tend to have trouble with maps and directions in real life too. Hey but it's fun at least!
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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 04-04-2013 10:12:00 
Nectarine
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Sorry about my obfuscation about the RingKey. I haven't actually found it yet, the last sentence about it was a joking reference to the time I spent into opening the Crypt of Kings. I searched every wall in the place, but I made a gambit that you wouldn't put any of the buttons on a corner section of a wall, based solely off thematic reasons (I decided that because the buttons were on the same wall section that opened, a corner section opening would look ugly and might cause problems on the minimap). The bit where I explained this connection was in the 4th section of the long post that I made, but after a series of problems getting it to go through I didn't bother posting it. My bad.

In any case, the short of it is that I haven't found the RingKey. I'll go extra slow when I check that area again, hopefully I find it soon.

Edit: I found it! Turned out to be nowhere near the Zadisha section, instead it was hidden amongst Odoni.

The central Mentanrith section, eh? Ah, that explains it, I hadn't opened the central Mentanrith area (I thought that had to do with the torches). And what do you know, the bit to open it up is in one of the corners. Why doesn't that surprise me?

Edit: Guess what else was in a corner? The RingKey of course.

Ah, the Coats of Arms. After there was no interaction with the piles of weapons lying on the floor in some of the earlier chambers, I assumed these Coats of Arms would be static as well (I think I moused over one, but not the others). Thank you for pointing that out.

And the same for reminding me about putting the Medallion back on the pedestal. I'd found that out some time ago, but I've since clean forgotten about it. Now that I remember that, making use of the thing has become doubly ominous. I suspected that Level 23 would be where it came into it's element - what Catacombs would be complete without secret passages?

I can't recall if the Prophecy was supposed to be on the Upper or Lower Catacombs. I'll check once I open up the game again. If it's on the Upper, I expect to see a section warning me about using the Medallion. Not too sure about the Lower, though. Since I've been waiting a while to find this prophecy, I can't wait to find it. Aside from the crystals, the prophecy was the driving force behind T/Ormar.

Maybe this will spoil a bit for me, but is it possible for a custom quest to disable the use of the Magic Door spell? And does it reflect upon me that I really, really want a this quest to have that capability?

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Last Edited On: 04-04-2013 10:46:39 By Nectarine for the Reason Updated information concerning the location of a RingKey.
 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 04-04-2013 02:40:15 
Foucter
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<As for the Medallion of Arachnes, I'm not actually sure I've completed it. The warning that it will betray me has me both paranoid and curious at the same (the vengeance of Bithol, maybe?), but the ending of the cavern sequence felt a bit incomplete. The interesting thing about the quest is that the Crypt Urn sequence was the section that took the longest amount of time, and once that is over (and you definitely know you are on the right track) the pace picks up considerably until you get the Medallion itself, at which point there is almost no enemy resistance. I can see two possible scenarios: One, where this is a deliberate gesture by the Medallion in order to trick you into removing it from the cavern after it realises that it cannot resist your approach, or Two, where this is a result of limitations of the Darkstone engine and quest-editing tools. I'm more inclined to believe the former, as the sense of unease I had when taking it had to originate from the effort made to create that atmosphere. But at the same time I find myself doubting whether or not anything will actually materialise in Uma that bears relation to the Medallion being removed from the cavern. As far as I'm concerned the quest isn't over yet, and I'll reserve my full judgement until a later date.>

     Very good thinking!  Yes, you have a right to feel afraid of the thing.  On Level 22 you get the first taste of how it helps you, which is fully realized on the next level down, but how long to use it?  I will tell you, if you haven’t already guessed; you can take it back.  And… save before going to level 24.

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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 04-04-2013 02:21:58 
Foucter
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<First up, the main quest. I've gone through with your suggestions, but I haven't had much success. I've gone through and examined carefully all the torches in and near Metanrith about 10 times, but all of them look exactly the same. They seem to have the same intensity cast on the floor when in overhead; changing the camera angle in F9 changes how the light appears on the wall the torch is attached to, but all of them seem to operate within the same extremes. The animations look the same (although for a while I thought one was bigger by a millimetre or so), they seem to blink at the same rates. I even tried comparing screenshots, but I can't see any difference between any of them.>

   As you enter the central Metanrith Crypt, on the opposite side of the large center square look for a torch.  Maybe your brightness is higher so it doesn’t appear brighter, but there actually 5 times the normal torch illumination here.  Anyway, walk straight through the torch into the center of the square, which opens the well.

 

<The RingKey remains elusive. I've checked up on the lead you gave me for the skeletons dropping it in the Z-area, panning the camera angle around the overhangs of the opened caskets to check everywhere. No sign of it, nor in the large corridor outside of the Z-area. It might be one of the 7 other possible locations - I might do a thorough search of Level 22 a bit later to see if there's anything I've missed, but I've already done one complete search of all the walls (and I mean all of them) and suspicious looking objects for secret passages, and I'm sure I'd have noticed it by now.

(but that's where you're wrong Nectarine, for the RingKey is hidden in the corners!)>

   So you did find the RingKey?  Wherever you killed the skeleton is where any items would fall; even behind the caskets.

 

<Blue blade, eh? Was that the reward for completing the 4th Knight's Room? The Knight's Sword of Tormar, I think? I've done a quick check through Level 18 and I can't find anything else I might have left behind - I may need to do a more thorough check later.>

   You’re right, but its not the Knight’s Sword.  The sword in question is in the Coat of Arms on the wall opposite the entrance, the one with the blue blade.

 

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Last Edited On: 04-04-2013 02:25:54 By Foucter for the Reason
 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 03-04-2013 11:24:21 
Nectarine
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Third section of post. I'm not entirely sure why this wouldn't all be processed in one go.

 

There's a funny story about my experiences with the Medallion so far. When I first found it I wasn't sure how to activate it, and in the end I decided to leave it out of my inventory for a while. Later on I tried testing it, but the passages that I tried to find with it were not of the right sort. In my experiences, the Medallion detects passages that are open from the beginning of the level (Level 21 would be a good area to use the Medallion in). The passages I tried testing it on were not of that variety, and were instead of the find-a-switch-to-open variety that propagated throughout much of Level 22. The Medallion of Arachnes provided me with no help for those passages, and I was sure that I was either using it wrong, or that it was completely broken. It wasn't until I walked near the Odoni section again (which contained a passage detectable by the Medallion) some 15 minutes later that I realised my mistake.

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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 03-04-2013 11:22:05 
Nectarine
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Second section of post.

 

As for the Medallion of Arachnes, I'm not actually sure I've completed it. The warning that it will betray me has me both paranoid and curious at the same (the vengeance of Bithol, maybe?), but the ending of the cavern sequence felt a bit incomplete. The interesting thing about the quest is that the Crypt Urn sequence was the section that took the longest amount of time, and once that is over (and you definitely know you are on the right track) the pace picks up considerably until you get the Medallion itself, at which point there is almost no enemy resistance. I can see two possible scenarios: One, where this is a deliberate gesture by the Medallion in order to trick you into removing it from the cavern after it realises that it cannot resist your approach, or Two, where this is a result of limitations of the Darkstone engine and quest-editing tools. I'm more inclined to believe the former, as the sense of unease I had when taking it had to originate from the effort made to create that atmosphere. But at the same time I find myself doubting whether or not anything will actually materialise in Uma that bears relation to the Medallion being removed from the cavern. As far as I'm concerned the quest isn't over yet, and I'll reserve my full judgement until a later date.

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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 03-04-2013 11:18:27 
Nectarine
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I seem to be having problems getting the reply to go through correctly. This is not the entire post, it is instead an attempt to troubleshoot.

 

First up, the main quest. I've gone through with your suggestions, but I haven't had much success. I've gone through and examined carefully all the torches in and near Metanrith about 10 times, but all of them look exactly the same. They seem to have the same intensity cast on the floor when in overhead; changing the camera angle in F9 changes how the light appears on the wall the torch is attached to, but all of them seem to operate within the same extremes. The animations look the same (although for a while I thought one was bigger by a millimetre or so), they seem to blink at the same rates. I even tried comparing screenshots, but I can't see any difference between any of them.

The RingKey remains elusive. I've checked up on the lead you gave me for the skeletons dropping it in the Z-area, panning the camera angle around the overhangs of the opened caskets to check everywhere. No sign of it, nor in the large corridor outside of the Z-area. It might be one of the 7 other possible locations - I might do a thorough search of Level 22 a bit later to see if there's anything I've missed, but I've already done one complete search of all the walls (and I mean all of them) and suspicious looking objects for secret passages, and I'm sure I'd have noticed it by now.

(but that's where you're wrong Nectarine, for the RingKey is hidden in the corners!)

Blue blade, eh? Was that the reward for completing the 4th Knight's Room? The Knight's Sword of Tormar, I think? I've done a quick check through Level 18 and I can't find anything else I might have left behind - I may need to do a more thorough check later.

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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 03-04-2013 07:13:04 
Foucter
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>Well, once again I've gotten stuck. The funny thing about Ormar is that I always seem to get >majorly stuck at least once per dungeon level, while doing much better at anything that isn't the >main quest: I've worked out how to use the Medallion of Arachnes, (which was the only bit on >that questline which I wasn't able to work out)
   How did you like journey to finding the Medallion?  It was quite the adventure, especially entering the hidden area.  I ask because I had no playtesters who even played into Ormar.

 

> I've found and explored the Crypt of  Forgotten Kings. That tidies all the secrets up nicely for me, but the main questline has stalled.

   Did you now?!  The hidden Chamber of Kings on Level 22?  Really?!!!


>I'm getting quite reliable at that. (but hey, with the quality of these rewards I'm not complaining!)

>I've opened up the sealed chambers of Odoni and Ithanes, and found the next item to be placed on the pedestals in the Summoning Forest, but not the next RingKey.

   As a heads up, there are actually 8 different places the RingKey could be, and all of them are very well placed.  Here are some hints: under an urn(single and double click), some deep water, on the floor, with some bones, on some pointy things, and with a wall decoration.

 

> I've found a Blood Gem, a quest-item marked bow

   I actually had completely forgotten about the Blood Crystal, and had to load the Editor to find out what it was.  This gem and its accompanying parchment will apply in the lowest level of these dungeons.  The bow, if its Farukin’s Bow, is needed down below.  Like the Bow, hopefully you have already recovered a blue blade from the Knight’s Chambers?

 

> a plaque on the wall in the Odoni-Ment junction

   Mentions a greatest light… you haven’t noticed a single torch in the nearby Metanrith area that is too bright?

 

> 3 Odoni coffins which can still be highlighted long after they have been opened.

Yeah.  They’re used in one the random item placements.  Apparently the machine wasn’t coded to go dead if it was not being used.

 

>Somewhere in the Crypts next to Tilithvir (Z-something) was a chest that was empty (I searched the ground and tried detection to double check), and that's about it that I found.

   I checked the machines in that area, and if I’m following my programming correctly… after you opened the chest, several skeletons should have spawned from the sarcophagi behind you.  One of those skeletons should have had the next RingKey!  I hope you find it!!!   

 

>And hey, my wish of finding a secret all by myself (Crypt of Forgotten Kings) came true!

   Good job on that!!  8)

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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 01-04-2013 09:24:28 
Nectarine
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Well, once again I've gotten stuck. The funny thing about Ormar is that I always seem to get majorly stuck at least once per dungeon level, while doing much better at anything that isn't the main quest: I've worked out how to use the Medallion of Arachnes, (which was the only bit on that questline which I wasn't able to work out) and I've found and explored the Crypt of Forgotten Kings. That tidies all the secrets up nicely for me, but the main questline has stalled.

I'm getting quite reliable at that. (but hey, with the quality of these rewards I'm not complaining!)

I've opened up the sealed chambers of Odoni and Ithanes, and found the next item to be placed on the pedestals in the Summoning Forest, but not the next RingKey. I've found a Blood Gem, a quest-item marked bow, a plaque on the wall in the Odoni-Ment junction, and 3 Odoni coffins which can still be highlighted long after they have been opened. Somewhere in the Crypts next to Tilithvir (Z-something) was a chest that was empty (I searched the ground and tried detection to double check), and that's about it that I found.

I've tried several things, such as trying to place quest items near sealed doorways and on the Odoni coffins, running around with the Trusyt torch, etcetera. I've checked every wall and pillar for any more of those buttons, but I've found nothing related to the main quest. I haven't found the left and right eyes mentioned by the Blood Gem, nor have I found the greatest light mentioned by the plaque on the wall.

Anything to get me stepping in the right direction again would be much appreciated.

And hey, my wish of finding a secret all by myself (Crypt of Forgotten Kings) came true!

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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 31-03-2013 23:42:03 
Foucter
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Actually... I did start with a Clue/Hint Guide first, which didn't make it over to this site.  Only a portion of the Walkthrough made it.  Considering that I starting the Avenger way back when the interest in the game was hot, and by the time I finished it 8 years later, that interest and people had disappeared; I decided after making the complete Clue/Hint Guide, the time for secrets was gone.  There was no one left to play it.  If anything, it was to prove to myself that I could start something this massive... and finish it!  There were many others back then who didn't.  I am gratified that you are playing, and enjoying the Avenger!  I put as much into it as I could, and I didn't make it easy.  The original game was easy.  I do keep an eye here, so continue to ask for help if you need it.  I may have pull out my notes, like the "hidden" thing, but I'll get you an answer! 8)

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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 31-03-2013 13:06:32 
Nectarine
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Well, I can definitely say that I got going after that riddle. After finding that scroll and starting the riddles for the third ring, I took down 3 riddles and swiped 3 rings in what felt like as many minutes! I can definitely say, that every frustration I had trying to solve that "place of the Hidden" riddle immediately reversed when I sunk my teeth into sweet, sweet victory. (and let me tell you, Elmeric is not getting a-hold of these, oh no)

(in case any explanation is in order, I was lucky enough to have opened the chamber earlier, and to have gotten all my riddles after the Ancient Clearing riddle in the same general location)

If my memory of the old Clue/Hint guide serves me correctly, the only secrets left to find are the: Crypt of Forgotten Kings, and the Medallion of Arachnes. I'm mostly though the Arachnes section (I think), and haven't found any leads as the to latter. Who knows, maybe I'll even be able to find a secret entirely by myself this time.

Which brings me to a small suggestion: Instead of starting off making a document of the full walkthrough, it might be easier making a document of the Clue/Hint guide first, and perhaps doing the full walkthrough later on instead. I appreciate the effort gone into making the full walkthrough (I wouldn't have seen nearly as much as your wonderful take on Uma if you hadn't), but the smaller size of the Clue/Hint guide coupled with the fact that it is a more general resource of information would make it much more useful in the short-to-medium term. (and I suppose it has to be said, I am a bit biased in the matter of needing assistance)

In any case, thank you very much for your help, both recently, and all the notes dotted about past posts which I have silently read. Most appreciated.

 

I'd say the whole goodbye sequence too, but somehow I don't think my 'contribution' to this Q+A thread is anywhere near it's conclusion...

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 Subject :Re:Need help on The Avenger.. 31-03-2013 09:42:25 
Foucter
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OK, I did some digging, and I found the riddle site.  It's in the Ancient Clearing in Marghor, the one where it was raining, and you used the filaments to recover the Crystal of Nobilty.  Like before, when you used the Trusyt Torch make the hidden objects appear, as in the door, statues and pedestals; use it again to find a scroll along the inside eastern wall.  The place of the "hidden".  Perhaps I shouldn't have capitalized it.  That should get you going!  8)

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